dignity. let me save mine. it's a double whammy acting like a heel and losing your heels at the same time. jeanne moos, cnn. new york. >> she is talented. she finds unusual stories. >> she can do stand-ups on escalators, swinging around poles. i'm very impressed. i'm not that coordinated. >> no. be very careful. if you're going on an escalator later, be very careful. that's it for us. thanks for watching. "outfront" starts right now. "outfront" next, we are just now learning of new offers on the table from both sides to avoid the fiscal cliff. so big question, do they add up? plus, it has been three months to the day since terrorists attacked the u.s. mission in benghazi. secretary of state hillary clinton says the administration has done everything possible but still, no one has been brought

to justice. where do we stand? also, a new hollywood movie highlights the work of a cia analyst credited with tracking down osama bin laden, but here's a big but, it also sheds some very serious light on in-fighting in the spy agency. you got to hear it to believe it. let's go "outfront." i'm ashleigh banfield in tonight for erin burnett. "outfront" tonight, our top developing story, we are just learning now that president obama and the white house or rather, president obama and the house speaker have spoken tonight. good news. this after they each fired another shot in the ongoing fight over how to resolve this fiscal cliff mess. cnn is now getting details about two new offers that were made and previously undisclosed, too. they kept a pretty tight lid on them. one of them by president obama, that was yesterday, then a counteroffer by the speaker. that was today.

all of this as the president tells abc news tonight that he is confident that republicans will not hold middle class tax cuts hostage. so there's a lot of news that's all of a sudden coming out. after some relative quiet. our white house correspondent dan lothian is on the case and joins me now by telephone, because you've been working your sources. take me into the conversation. all of this breaking late today and it sounds good. it sounds at least like there's some movement, dan. >> reporter: that's right. that's always been the issue, because as you know, it was just last week we were talking about the fact that there were no talks ongoing, not even behind the scenes, and now these latest developments and as you pointed out, we didn't even know the white house had submitted another offer yesterday but confirmation coming from a senior administration official that in fact, the white house did submit that offer yesterday to house republicans. today there was a counteroffer from house republicans, still waiting to find out details of that counteroffer. then of course, president obama

having that phone conversation with speaker boehner this evening. encouraging sign and as you pointed out, president obama as well showing some optimism that in fact a deal will get done. the few details we do know, according to sources, is that this new offer from the white house had $1.4 trillion in revenue. that's down from the $1.6 in the original offer and also, according to sources, deals with real entitlement reform, but the one sticking point we're told by democratic sources, remains and that is they won't budge on upper income americans paying more in taxes. the president believing that middle class americans should get relief but not upper income americans. >> okay. dan lothian, keep working the sources. thanks for getting that to us. i want to bring in john avlon and rahaim salan to talk this over.

i don't know if we can call this momentum, serious momentum, especially since we are getting rhetoric, too. >> a little sad we get this excited to find out people are actually talking to each other in washington. but it's a reality check, sign of the times. it's always better when the two top men who got to make the decision ultimately are getting in a room without scameras and moving proposals back and forth. it's a sign of progress. is it progress in the next 48 to 72 hours? that's probably optimistic. but progress is being made because conversation is occurring. >> i hate to say this, i was really thrilled we weren't getting a whole lot the last two days which signaled to me at least maybe these guys have decided it's not good to work this out in the court of public opinion, yet now we're starting to hear a little more. good news, bad news? >> i think it's encouraging. among republicans there's an emerging view that was championed by representative cole of oklahoma, wait a second, what we can do is pass one law that extends all the middle income tax cuts and another that extends the whole package and

then let the president veto one, let the other go through and we shield a large majority of american households from tax increases. now, then you have a fight early next year that involves increasing the debt limit where republicans will have far more leverage in which to make the case for structural entitlement reform. i think there are a lot of people including senator bob corker this past weekend and others who have come to embrace that view. i think that it makes a lot of sense for republicans partly because i think if we do wind up going over the fiscal cliff as they say, it's psychologically likely to have a big impact. >> are you getting sources to tell you that's what's in the offers? great philosophy, but on paper? >> the thing is that mechanically would be the easiest thing to do. the trouble is if you do not take that approach, one thing we've heard, for example, is that president obama might embrace a tax rate lower than 39.6%. 37%, 36%, 38%. but if you do that, then actually republicans will have to put their stamp on such a deal, whereas if they actually just allow that part to expire, then they're saying you know what, we did our part but we didn't actually embrace that

increase, which to me makes sense. >> let me throw out the speaker. he made comments earlier today. since they came in so late we want to play what he had to say about the latest rounds of offers. >> we're still waiting for the white house to identify what spending cuts the president is willing to make as part of the balanced approach that he promised the american people. >> so john, soundslike more posturing but i wonder if while in quiet they negotiate, the political posturing goes on as part of the theater to make sure that they quell all the frustration from their bases. so really, we were way closer to a deal than you or i or anybody else in the media knows. >> there is certainly a lot of partisan kabuki here. the strategy just laid out is in part about making sure people can't get attacked from the right for saying, for example, they violated the pledge. no one voted for proactive tax increase. john boehner is the man in the middle here. he's a deal maker at heart. so i think a lot of his statements are about nullifying

the base of the republican party but the question is where is that common ground. look, his statement that the president hasn't put forward spending cuts or entitlement reform doesn't pass the credibility test because we know even in 2011, negotiations for the grand bargain that unfortunately for the country fell short. there were offers of significant spending cuts and entitlement reform, notably raising the medicare eligibility age. >> you are saying from past discussions? >> this negotiation, the president is offering raising the medicare eligibility age. that is not nothing. that is a big deal, taking on some democrat special cows. i think the president wants a grand bargain because the fact that we go into another debt ceiling debacle potentially early next year, that's what led to the downgrading of the credit rating. we do not need that again. >> despite the fact he says i'm willing to let us go over the fiscal cliff. just quickly, this is dovetailing what you said before. if the republicans have to take it on the chin with their base for talking about taxing the rich, could they be now discussing in broad terms how to at least say the democrats, you're going to take the hit for

medicare, then? >> the deeper structural issue is this. this is not the first fiscal cliff. we have a fiscal cliff every year with renewing the amt, with fixing the medicare payment rate, the so-called doc fix. we make policy in a crazy way in this country. what i think republicans are trying to do is say let's look at structural solutions that can lower the cost of these programs over the long term rather than doing a patch at the last minute every darn year. that's the way we make policy and it is absolutely crazy. >> amen. >> don't go out tonight. we could have further details breaking as we speak. thanks to both of you. coming up next, on "outfront" it's been exactly three months, three months, since terrorists attacked our u.s. mission in benghazi and yes, you haven't seen a head line about an arrest and any justice in any form. also, new information about that navy s.e.a.l. who died during a daring rescue mission in afghanistan. we will go to his hometown, meet the people who knew him best, hear more about him. also, the nurse who committed suicide after falling

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from td ameritrade. or second story "outfront" desperate for answers. three months to the day after terrorists attacked the u.s. mission in benghazi, libya and killed four americans, including our u.s. ambassador, chris stevens, not one person has been brought to justice. the good news is the fbi has identified several suspects involved in the attack. the bad news is, libya has no one in custody and some of the people we identified may have even fled benghazi according to the "new york times." so much for the key players. as for the fringe players, an egyptian militant has been arrested in cairo with possible ties to the attack, but he hasn't been questioned by the u.s. and a tunisian man was arrested in october but he isn't considered a main suspect at this point, either. without a clear lead and without a whole lot of cooperation from

the libyan government either, the fbi has now resorted to asking for tips on facebook and twitter. facebook and twitter in a quadruple murder case. "outfront" tonight, senator johnny isaacson. senator, thanks for being with us. it is never easy doing an investigation of this ilk on someone else's sovereign turf, but does this stand out? >> it does to me. your point is well taken. if they're looking to twitter and facebook three months later, they should have been on the ground within hours after the attack looking for hard evidence which has now gotten cold. it has been a very disappointing investigation to date. >> senator, i'm sorry, i can't hear you. i apologize. there's something wrong with my connection to you. despite what your answer just was that i unfortunately could not hear, i'm going to throw another question at you and i apologize if you already addressed it. look, the libyan government has

a particular conundrum on its hands. it may not be helpful to our investigators but it also is doing a delicate diplomatic dance internally with militants who they don't seem to be able to control, and if they target, could end up targeted themselves. and they say they don't have anywhere near the kind of firepower that they need to offset what those militants could do. that does come into the mix, doesn't it? >> no question about it. i hope you can hear me now. can you, ashleigh? can you hear me now? >> yes. >> obviously not. benghazi is a dangerous place. libya's ability to cooperate is not that great although we've had some cooperation. what we need is the accountability review board to come forward and make their report before the end of this year which senator kerry has now said they will do to begin unraveling what happened and find out why united states ambassador died, first one to die in 34 years in the line of duty. >> i'm happy to announce,

senator, i just got your audio back on the last line of what you said. probably one of the more strange interviews i think i have ever conducted. now that i can hear you, representative peter king, who sits on the homeland security committee, has suggested that this is not a job for the cia, not a job for the fbi, that only the military should be investigating this quadruple murder because he likens it to an act of war. is that going too far? >> no. i think the military should be first and foremost but i would also agree the cia and fbi can help. i've seen the fbi active overseas make a big difference in a number of investigations. but principally the military should be doing it and we should have had people there to protect during the attack. coming in after the attack is much, much harder. >> let me ask you this as well. senator john mccain, who has been ambassador susan rice's harshest critic in how the

information was disseminated after the attack on our mission in benghazi, has now suggested he would like to make a move to get on your committee. i think most people understand why he would like to have a really good crack at those confirmation hearings, making it a very difficult go for ambassador rice. what do you make of that? >> i don't know that that's his motivation. john is a senior member of the republican conference in the united states senate, a decorated war hero. he would make a great contribution to the senate foreign relations committee. >> great contribution but do you also think he could politicize this even further as some critics have said? >> john's a man of great character. i saw his criticism of susan rice. i had some criticism myself. he was asking questions that needed to be asked, as we get answers, that will solve those problems. >> let me ask you one other thing when it comes to the mode of investigation that our government is now employing. i said it off the top of this introduction to you, that the fbi has now taken to facebook and twitter. look, you can say what you want

about that being an investigative technique but facebook and twitter were widely credited for the arab spring uprisings all across the arab world so you can't make light that that is a pretty powerful tool. it may just sound we're kind of at wit's end. i'm not going to suggest you can give me information that's classified, but do you have a good sense at least that they're getting momentum with the tools they can use, that they're making headway in their investigation in libya? >> well, i understand from senator kerry we are going to have a report on the accountability review board before the end of this year. that's the next three weeks. they must be making some progress. i have been allowed to review some but not all of the documents between the secretary of state and chris stevens. i have seen some of the communicatio communications. i have seen the requests for security. what i haven't seen is the responses they got or why they didn't get a response and get the security they needed. we were getting some of the answers. we need all of the answers and sooner rather than later. >> senator isakson, it has been a delight to talk to you.

it's been even a greater delight to hear you for the last half of our interview. i hope we get another chance to do this again sometime. thanks, senator. >> i hope so, too. thank you. we're going to move on and with full audio ensuing, "outfront" next, during the daring rescue of an american doctor in afghanistan, one of our country's most elite soldiers died. we will go to his hometown, hear more about him from the people who knew him best. also, new developments in the trayvon martin case. george zimmerman's brother says his entire family now has to live in fear. riprise financial was founded back in 1894, they've been committed to putting clients first. helping generations through tough times. good times. never taking a bailout. there when you need them. helping millions of americans over the centuries. the strength of a global financial leader. the heart of a one-to-one relationship. together for your future. ♪

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our third story "outfront" he was one of america's elite warriors. high school graduate who earned a place among the u.s. special forces, a unit known for taking out osama bin laden. he was known for achieving a near lifelong goal many can only dream of. now we're learning more about the navy s.e.a.l. who died in that successful mission to rescue an american doctor who was being held captive in afghanistan. brian todd is in his hometown and talking to the people who knew him best. >> reporter: he died doing what he dreamed about since middle

school. his last operation was a success. the 28-year-old from the elite s.e.a.l. team six, the lone american casualty in the mission that rescued an american dock for from captors in afghanistan. tony says he dreaded this day. still -- >> i never thought that anything like that could happen to him. he was always smarter. he was always faster. he was always, you know, always so dedicated. you know, just blew my mind when it happened. >> reporter: he played football and wrestled with nick in middle school, wrestled with him in high school. he and another teammate, now the assistant principal, remember nick as a no nonsense kid who never wanted to be anything but a navy s.e.a.l. >> you had to go up against him in practice. what was that like? >> when you got tired towards the end, he was still one of the kids that didn't slow down, that didn't give in. >> reporter: here, nick was

known as a good wrestler but not a superstar. what stood out to tony was an operation that nick got that didn't have anything to do with wrestling, tony says, but had everything to do with nick's determination and his goals. >> he had lasik eye surgery when he was a junior in high school. >> reporter: why did he do that? >> to weed out any complications or any doubt that anybody would have for him to succeed in the s.e.a.l.s. he wanted perfection. >> reporter: this physics teacher remembered a kid who strove for perfection in the classroom, too. >> he wouldolve problems in ways i didn't show him but they would be right. >> reporter: a four-year honor student who never thought about going to college. nick went straight into the navy from high school. in ten years, he served in iraq and afghanistan. he was awarded the bronze star and other commendations and made it on the unit he had set his sights on.

now the loss is just sinking in for a friend who says nick inspired him to join the navy, to spend ten years of his life there and to now go to college. >> to know s.e.a.l. team six, to know what he did, see how far he got, amazing. i'm going to need a minute. >> that's so emotional. brian, that is not the only loss that the people of that high school have had to endure, is it? >> reporter: it is not. there was another loss from this high school and another high profile battle in afghanistan back in september. a lieutenant colonel, marine lieutenant colonel, was killed in that well-known attack on camp bastion in afghanistan. militants dressed as soldiers, breached the perimeter, were

repelled. he led the attack. that's the operation the militants were said to be out to kill britain's prince harry in that raid. this man, the lieutenant colonel, led the counterattack and was killed in that battle. he is also a graduate of this high school, graduated about 12 years before nick did. >> you can just feel the loss and the emotion among those people you interviewed. brian, thanks. appreciate that. brian todd reporting for us live. a programming note for you regarding afghanistan. erin burnett is going to be there and she will be live on thursday for this program, reporting on the future and what's at stake for afghanistan. still ahead, a historic defeat for unions in michigan today. they can no longer force workers to join them or pay dues either. and a new movie celebrates the actions of the analyst who tracked down osama bin laden. but it also reveals some pretty serious in-fighting inside the cia. ♪ all seem to say throw care away ♪ ♪ from everywhere, filling the air ♪

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some breaking news we want to bring to your attention. this coming to us out of oregon. in fact, a suburb of portland, oregon. you can see emergency vehicles are responding to a shopping

center where apparently an active shooter is inside the mall. take a look at the number of cars that are in the parking lot and being that this is peak christmas shopping season, you can imagine there are probably quite a few people inside that mall at this time. we don't know much about this but we have been told that there are possibly multiple victims. again, this is an active shooter and a breaking situation and you can see that some of the emergency vehicles are still arriving on the scene. again, a suburb of portland, oregon. these pictures coming to us from the helicopter live courtesy of our affiliate, katu. we will keep an eye on this story for you and as we zoom in to see if we can see a stretcher is coming out of that ambulance but it looks like it's an empty one. at this point, only some of the reports suggesting there have been multiple victims but we don't know if there have been any people killed. we will continue to get you the updated details on this story as they become available to us. also tonight, president obama says his administration

will formally recognize the syrian opposition forces fighting with syrian president bashir al assad. here's what the president told barbara walters. >> we made a decision that the syrian opposition coalition is now inclusive enough, is reflective and representative enough of the syrian population that we consider them the legitimate representative of the syrian people in opposition to the assad regime. >> this, by the way, comes nearly a month oafter britain ad france recognized the coalition. the move is important to the coalition. it is looking to get rid of this man, al assad, but it doesn't mean washington will be giving them weapons any time soon. that is a huge sticking point. defense secretary leon panetta is saying there is no new intelligence indicating assad's regime is moving any closer to using the chemical weapons that had so many people on edge just earlier this week. tonight, we are also

learning that an american has been held in north korea for more than a month now. according to south korean newspapers, kenneth bayh is a tour operator who was detained after someone on his tour was found carrying a computer hard disk with sensitive information. a u.s. official told us there are no signs that bayh has been mistreated. the swedish government which acts as the protecting power for the u.s. in north korea is reportedly working to help get him released. an australian radio station is donating money to a fund that was set up for the nurse's family, that nurse who apparently committed suicide in england. they say they will donate at least $520,000 to the nurse's family. two deejays at the station called the hospital where prince william's wife was being treated and pretended to be queen elizabeth and prince charles. the nurse who first answered the call, jacintha saldanha, was later found dead of an apparent suicide.

it has been 495 days since the u.s. lost its top credit rating. the question you keep hearing, what are we doing to get it back. seems the companies continue to expand despite the dreaded fiscal cliff. the labor department reports job openings rose by 128,000 from september to october. that means a total of 3.7 million positions are just waiting to be filled. our fourth story "outfront" tonight, a developing story out of michigan. the state's governor has just announced that he has signed two extremely controversial bills. they are right to work bills and boy, has there been noise over these. this now makes it illegal to force any workers to join a union or perhaps more importantly, pay union dues in order to get a job. thousands of angry crowds have been outside of the state capitol all day long. this has been the scene. poppy harlow has been in the

middle of it all. she joins me now on "outfront." the governor has decided to talk about this. what has he said this means for his state? >> reporter: well, i joined the governor tonight for an interview after this legislation was passed, really right before, minutes before he signed it into law. this is critical because as you said, it means people won't have to be part of a union. all those auto workers in michigan, all the public school teachers, who normally have to pay into the union. likely we will see fewer union members, less money, less power for these unions at the bargaining table. that's the crux of this. the governor insisting to me in our one-on-one interview that this is an opportunity to quote, stand up for the rights of workers, also telling me that he thinks this is in the best interest of michiganders. let's play video and show you what the workers think and how they showed that today inside the state capitol, chanting things like "shame" and "veto, veto" hoping the governor would strike this down. then actually moving across the

street from the capitol to stage a sit-in in the governor's office and our cameras were there rolling on it until police escorted the media out. so the tensions were very high here all day but the main argument by the governor is he thinks this will bring companies and jobs to the state of michigan, something this state desperately needs. here's what he told me. >> i think we'll see thousands of jobs coming to michigan. this will be a big promoter of that. i think you're going to find people stepping up to say they want choice. union members will want choice and they do want choice, and hopefully unions can be more accountable and more responsive and successful by doing these things. this is a case as time passes i think people will be proud of this legislation. it will be a good thing for michigan. >> reporter: that's still to be seen. what the data shows is that typically, union workers make more than their nonunion counterparts but if you do make lower wages, that will make this state more competitive for businesses to come in. so it's really a toss-up.

the governor cited michigan's next door neighbor, the state of indiana, to me. they just passed right to work legislation in february. he said indiana is seeing a gain of thousands of jobs. we want that here in michigan. the difference between michigan and indiana is indiana is a red state. they did not vote for the president this year. this state voted for the president by nine points, so the question is, in two years, when we possibly have a new governor, possibly a new legislature, does this get overturned. will companies be willing to really come in and plant their foot here and create jobs here? that's a big question. >> they may have voted for a democratic president but they have both an assembly and senate that are majority republican. stand by for a moment. i want to bring in john avlon to bring us perspective on this. break it down, when we talk about the employment economies of states that are right to work states and states that are not right to work states. is one better than the other? >> this really gets to the heart of cutting through the spin,

because there are so many partisan special interests that do the analysis. we called the bureau of labor statistics. it is clear that right to work states have a slight edge on unemployment. unemployment rate in right to work states, 7.6%. in non-right to work states, union states, 6.9%. >> jobs, great. how about wages? >> that's the rub. analysis here shows analysis in 2007 by hofstra university said there arless bankruptcies in right to work states but wages and overall earnings are in aggregate less. again, here, states can point to a higher unemployment rate, rather, lower unemployment rate in right to work states but it comes out of the wages. >> while we can do measurements on unemployment statistics and hard wage numbers, it's a little more tricky to find out what the benefits are of benefits and measuring benefits. >> that's exactly right. this is part of the key debate. contracts have great benefits. that's part of the pitch that's been made for generations but with those benefits come real cost, especially to private

sector companies. so it's part of the competitiveness pitch. governor snyder wants more businesses to move into his state. he believes this actually will do it. what's so contentious about michigan is the huge union tradition in this state, the heart of the auto industry, so when michigan passes right to work legislation, becoming the 24th state, not only is the nation at sort of a tipping point but it is a shot across the bow of a state with a deep union tradition. >> so a lot of analysts watching these scenes play out in front of the state house today were equating this with wisconsin. it wasn't long ago that the state house was overtaken in wisconsin as well in collective bargaining the issue there. explain to me why this is not wisconsin. >> because wisconsin was all about public sector unions. governor walker going in in a swing state and trying to curtail collective bargaining rights for public sector unions. there's a world of difference here which is about right to work for private sector unions. so while there is an impulse to paint with a broad brush because the protests at the state capitol are similar, it's a fundamentally different issue at hand. wisconsin, not a right to work

state. >> knew you would have the answer to that. always good to see you. thank you. great analysis. you could call this next story office politics at their worst. which would be comical were we not talking about the cia and the agents who helped track down osama bin laden. "zero dark thirty" is a new movie about that raid. back story to this movie is shedding some light on one of the key figures who tracked him down. a female analyst. as one former cia associate told the "washington post" agents are so jealous over the attention that she's been getting, they are behaving quote, like middle schoolers with security clearances. barbara starr has more. >> there are two narratives about the location of osama bin laden. >> reporter: behind the character, hollywood it girl jessica chastain fortrays -- >> this is an incredible woman who can't get credit for

sacrifices she made because she's under cover. >> reporter: -- there is a controversial real woman. the cia analyst is said to be in her 30s. she served in pakistan. by many accounts, she was instrumental in finding where osama bin laden was hiding. >> everybody describes her as a very headstrong and even combative personality at times. >> reporter: "washington post" reporter greg miller says the cia targeting expert who found bin laden has become a target herself. >> she has rankled colleagues in scuffles over credit for the operation. >> reporter: former navy s.e.a.l. matt, who was part of the raid, described her in a "60 minutes" interview. >> i can't give her enough credit. in my opinion, she kind of teed up this whole thing and just wicked smart, kind of feisty. >> reporter: miller says the analyst received a cash bonus for her work but still felt slighted. >> she got a more prestigious award than most but nevertheless

was put out basically that others were included on the list. >> reporter: the cia insists no single person found bin laden, telling cnn quote, hundreds of analysts, operators and many others played key roles in the hunt. but there are questions to be answered. >> she also is under some scrutiny for her interactions with the film makers as part of a broader inquiry at the agency. >> reporter: whatever happened, the cia analyst was not promoted. >> it was stunning to a lot of people inside the cia that this person who played such an important role in such a historic mission was blocked from getting a pretty basic promotion. >> reporter: former case officer bob baer wonders if the cia still can't cope with a supposedly prickly personality from a woman. >> if you run down bin laden, i don't carehat your personality is like, you should immediately get promoted. >> reporter: the cia has never announced it, but it does have a panel of retired experts looking

at why women are not being promoted aggressively. it's been a problem at the agency for decades. even though dozens of women have worked on the hunt for osama bin laden since the morning of 9/11. barbara starr, cnn, the pentagon. "outfront" next, the latest in the trayvon martin case. george zimmerman was in court today. did he gain or lose any ground in his case? also, will william and kate have a boy or girl? how that information could be worth thousands of dollars, believe it or not. also we take you back to oregon where there's an active shooter in a mall outside of portland. the details on that in just a moment. plus presents the cold truth. i have a cold, and i took nyquil, but i'm still "stubbed" up. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil doesn't unstuff your nose. what? [ male announcer ] it doesn't have a decongestant. no way. [ male announcer ] sorry. alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms

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want to bring some new details to you about that shooting in oregon, just outside of portland, in a suburb at a mall there. you can see the emergency vehicles on the scene. there is an active shooting that's under way right now at the mall. we're learning a little bit more about the potential for victims here. the american medical response in

that community has said that one victim has already been transported to the hospital, that ten ambulances are there and more are coming. at least two more ambulances are on the way as we speak. not only that, but the county medical examiner's office has been called to the scene as well. we do not know how many victims have been brought out of this mall at this time, but we do know that police are inside the mall, apparently doing a sweep looking for the shooter, at the same time looking for victims and bringing them out as they find them. our affiliate koin is doing rolling coverage of this. we want to just dip into their coverage to hear some of the details they're learning live. >> we have to go to a news conference. we're so grateful that your daughter is okay. >> we have several units from local county, state, city, federal agencies helping us methodically clear the mall, evacuate some wounded, and do a

thorough search to make sure everything is safe. again, at this point, this is no longer an active shooter t shooter has been neutralized. we are securing the mall, securing the scene and treating the wounded. >> how many people have been shot? >> i don't have the exact number of patients. we have multiple ems units here, the fire department, amr and life flight and we have several ems units on scene to treat the wounded. we know there are multiple wounded. life flight has landed to treat at least one of those wounded. we are set up to treat them as we find them as we search the mall. >> we have been hearing there are confirmed dead. can you tell us that? >> there are confirmed dead. i don't have any numbers or details about that. >> when you say neutralized, has he surrendered, been taken into custody, shot and killed? >> i don't have any details in regards to that. i will get those details and release them soon but there's no longer any shooting going on. he has been -- >> we heard the mall had been locked down but we have been talking to several people who are on the phone who say it hasn't and they are still walking around. some people are hiding in there, waiting to be told what to do.

>> we know of several groups of employees that have locked themselves in break rooms and bathrooms. one at a time, very carefully, we are addressing each of those groups, so we have several teams of law enforcement working through the mall, finding an gathering up those groups and escorting them out. if you were a witness to this or have any information, you are here at the town center, please approach law enforcement or wait to be contacted by law enforcement so we can take that information before you leave. if you have already left, please contact the if you've already left contact the clackamas county sheriff's office on sunnybrook boulevard. we're prepared to take your information there. >> do you have any idea what went on here, who this guy was? >> i don't have any details about identification, motive or anything of that nature. >> we had heards that there are a rifle. >> he had a firearm. a lot of conflicting information. that's normal for this type of situation. until i see it personally or get

that verified, i can't confirm what the weapon was. >> is the shooter still alive? >> the shooter's been neutralized, i don't have the exact information on that. >> do you know how many officers are here inside and out? >> i don't have an estimate. i don't have an exact count. but there's probably county, multiple cities, state, federal law enforcement, so dozens and dozens and dozens of officers. >> can you confirm what the shooter was wearing? >> i cannot. i have no details to release about the shooter at this time. >> are we talking about more than one person dead? >> we believe there's at least one deceased and maybe more. >> any idea how many shots were fired? >> no. >> people who have not heard from their family members may be worried that they could be here or could be hurt, what do you want them to know? what's your advice? >> be patient. the event has calmed down at this point. there are people that you won't be able to reach until we get them out of the mall and get them to a phone. so be patient with us. we're trying to get everybody in

contact with their loved ones as soon as possible. if they have questions or concerns, they can come to the clackamas county sheriff's office and we'll answer those. >> can you walk us through the baekts of how this began. >> of course, when these things happen, the initial call, lots of calls, lots of witnesses through 911. we respond immediately to the scene, several officers close by. lots of conflicting information about location, number of people and that type of stuff. we do our best to work through that, respond to what the witness reports say, what we hear and what we see and move as fast as we can to address and stop the situation. >> the first officers ran in to try to find him? >> yes. >> do you know whether he was methodical about this? was he firing widely? >> i don't have any of those details yet. i imagine as the investigation continues and we can do video surveillance, we'll get those answers. but too soon to tell. >> appreciate the sensitivity of using the word "neutralize," but the folks at home want to know is this guy dead?

>> i'll release that information as soon as i can verify it, but he's been neutralized. >> there's only one shooter. >> we had conniflicting reports that there are more than one shooter. one of them has been neutralized. we don't believe there are any other shooters, but we're going to be careful and search the whole mall and make sure. the mall will be closed for the duration of this. and that's it. i'll give another briefing at 5:30 with details. >> a number of people lined up against the wall, are those customers or are they able to leave? >> i don't know. i don't know who they are. they may be witnesses we need to talk to. 5:30 another briefing here. >> that was a news conference from clackamas county sheriff's department. here's what they had to say. at about 3:30 a man -- >> so we've been watching the live rolling coverage from koin, our affiliate in oregon. and the headline here that the

shooter in the words of lieutenant james rhodes of the clackamas county sheriff's office there, has been neutralized, but he refused to elaborate on whether police shot the shooter and killed him or whether he has just been apprehended. that is apparently information that will come out later. we do know this, at least one person has been killed. possibly more according to the lieutenant. and without question the sweep continues, not the only find people to get them out, escort them out, as he put it, but also to find if there are additional victims as well. he did say that there are several different law enforcement agencies from the city, state all the way to the federal level. and the reports that there might have been more shooters, he's addressing that. he doesn't believe that there are more shooters, but they are continuing to watch that. he also mentioned that life flight has arrived on the scene apparently to attend toot least one of the victim of the shooting. you can see all of the ambulances. there were apparently just ten of them on the scene moments ago

with another two on the way. but again, the headline here, at least one confirmed dead, possibly more. no idea on the number of victims at that point. holly batista was at the mall at the time this all began to develop. she's on the phone with us now. can you hear me? >> yes, i can. >> describe for me what you saw and what you know about all this. >> i was in the macy's, which is actually opens directly into the food court area. i was just shopping for my daughter. and you know, i heard what i thought sounded like firecrackers. unfortunately, you know, those were gunshots. the next thing i saw was people ducking and, you know, running towards exits and screaming, there's somebody shooting. so multiple children around. everybody was really just working to help each other get out. and while that was happening all i could hear was gunshots continuing. >> did you see anything, did you see anyone on the ground, did you see a shooter? >> i did not.

fortunately, i did not. like i said, the only thing i saw were people ducking. i didn't see anybody who may have been injured. but no i did not. i was really no cussed on getting out and making sure people around me did as well. >> how many people were with you at the time? just very round estimates. was it a very crowded night at the mall? >> you know, it's mid-afternoon here on a weekday. it's a little bit higher populated because it's the holidays, but in the area i was in i would say upwards of 100 people headed towards the doors. i really couldn't estimate, unfortunately, but it was rather crowded for a portland area mall. >> how quickly were you able to get out of the mall. and were you with any other people? were you all able to get out very quickly? >> you know, the side doors are a little bit smaller. so there were quite a few people who rushed there. we were able to get out within minutes. once we were out, law enforcement responded and the exits were blocked.

they were on it very quickly. there's multiple agencies here working very hard. but you know, we weren't able to leave our vehicles in the parking lot because they were completely locked down on the perimeter. so just within the last half hour i was able to get across the street to another area with my vehicle. >> and holli, take me back inside the mall for a moment. you said a detail that has stuck with me, that there were lots of children at the mall. can you just describe for me when you started to hear the shots, what were the parents and the children at that point doing? what did the scene look like? >> it was very chaotic, as it still is. you know, people really were racing towards exits and yelling. that's the first thing that really caught my attention. it's 3:30, school is out in some of these areas. and you know, i was in one of the upper parts where there's a children's section. people were headed that way, obviously, making sure everybody around them was getting out. it seemed like people were working together, you know, during tragedy and terrified.

i don't think anybody really knew what was going on or how severe it was. it was scary. >> you said that you were either at or near the macy's in the mall. i'm just trying to get an aerial look from the helicopter pictures that we're seeing live, but do you have any idea how far away from you or in what direction of the mall, what area, what stores that shooter may have been close to? >> what i'm hearing around me is that it was in the food court, which is the open area, which is literally the central point for the entire mall. all the stores around the food court open into the food court area. there's an escalator in the location. there z multiple stores that center in that area. the area i was in opened into the food court area. >> but you couldn't see anything transpiring in the food court. you couldn't see anybody beinging shot, you couldn't see a shooter. >> no, i didn't look. >> what did you see when you got out? did you see any injured, anybody on stretchers, anybody being evacuated? >> as of right now, there are incident tents set up outside one of the areas at the exit.

there are at least ten ambulances there, some are backing into triage areas. when i got outside there were people coming out from all different areas. they're saying there's still some people locked down in the mall, that the sheriff's office is going through and out and bringing, but i think they're trying to bring everybody out as safely as possible while trying to handle the situation. >> holli, they say they're doing a sweep try to get people who may still be in the mall out. but once you emerged into the parking lot, were you able to see any victims being brought out, anybody who was clearly shot or took fire or has been res cured evacuated or rushed off in an ambulance? >> i have not. there is one entrance, though, on the lower side of the macy's near the rei store that it seems like ems is coming out with people. i'm standing across the street now, so i can't visually see anybody, but they have a lot roped off and they have tents out there for